OK, in the previous post I examined the electoral reform question that will be posed to Ontarians this October, and asked a couple questions about the Mixed Member Proportional system being proposed. Most importantly, I wanted to know how the List Candidates will be selected by their parties.
The answer? It's up to the parties.
From the Citizen Assembly's report:
The Assembly’s proposal for a Mixed Member Proportional system includes the recommendation that list candidates and the process parties use to nominate them should be well known to voters before they vote. The Assembly did not make a recommendation to change the process by which parties nominate their local candidates. However, the Assembly believes that the same type of transparency, with attention to achieving greater gender balance and reflecting Ontario’s diverse population, should apply to local candidate nominations. This would contribute to the legitimacy of the electoral system and citizens’ confidence in the political process. (emphasis mine)
So this would be left up to the parties themselves, which I guess makes sense; parties will probably choose to have some kind of nomination process for their List Candidates to make them seem legitimate, both to the electorate and to the party members themselves.
Caveat: if the List Candidate nomination follows in the footsteps of Canada's longstanding candidate nomination procedures, it will be as illegitimate, inaccessible and murky as our current process is. Count on a post on this topic in the future.
I think I'll lay it all on the line here: I'm planning on voting for the new Mixed Member Proportional system. I've been unhappy with the false majorities of the FPP system for a long time, and I think it's time Canada moved to a PR system. I like the looks of this plan: it's simple and fair, and deserves, I think, my support. I look forward to your resounding and unwavering agreement.
Saturday, September 08, 2007
Ontario referendum- update
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12 comments:
Man, this blog started out as something much more than the usual "my cat has herpes and smells bad" blogs, but in these last two posts I think you have entered the realm of "doing a good thing". Like, actually doing a good, worthy thing. Anyways man, great blog, I read it with religious intensity.
As for the referendum question, I'll vote for the new system as well. The FFP system has always struck me as unrepresentative (or at least not AS representative as it ought to be). I may be entirely mistaken (politics has never been my strong suit), but isn't it the case that there are disparities between the populations of different ridings? As in, a very large population in a riding in the GTA is represented by the same one member as perhaps a smaller riding somewhere in Northern Ontario? If this is the case, this strikes me as another expression of the unrepresentative nature of FPP. If not, then I'm an idiot (and I'm okay with that). Either way, I say pump in the new blood.
Hey phil, thanks for the supportive words!
You're right: ridings are not drawn to include equal populations. For instance, the federal riding of Toronto-Danforths has 109,715 residents, whereas the smaller riding of Algoma-Maintoulin-Kapuskasing has only 82,345.
In a real sense, this is unfair to the good people of Toronto-Danforths: they receive less direct representation per capita than the folks of Algoma. However, the new MMP system won't do anything, to my knowledge to change this.
Y'know, in my view, Canadian localities are not well represented at the local level anyway, either provincially or federally: your local MP or MPP can't protect your local interests very well, as they are constantly forced to tow the party line, and the party doesn't think in terms of localities. This is very different from the U.S. system, where all politics is local.
So in sum, I'm not too bothered by the disparities in population, since Canadians aren't represented well at the local level anyway.
I've got to agree with Phil on this one, your blog is well on its way towards actually educating people and having an impact. Heck, you've reached me already, the first I read about this referendum was on this site!
Thanks Allen! Mucho appreciado:)
How, may I ask, do you feel about the new MMP system?
Hey Frok-Man, hope things are well in Ottawa. I will be voting for the new system although with some hesitancy. I fear that the new system will cause our provincial government to become much less productive because of the fragmentation that will occur as a result. What are your thoughts? Will we ever see a majority government again if it is passed? Can minority governments form competent coalitions and achieve as much as a majority government would otherwise? A fairer system certainly sounds appealing but if it reduces the productivity and effectiveness of future governments is it really worth it? How is the system doing in other countries? I want answers (and I expect you to seek them out for me)! Or, perhaps democracy just doesn't work and I should start campaigning for the Molson Tyrannical Neo-Marxist-Leninist Faction. Lovin the blog, keep the posts coming. Also, I think a post on Mulroney's controversial remarks is in order (from his new book and interview with CTV).
I'm with Shantz on this one. I will also be voting in favour of MMP with a little bit of hesitancy. I too wish to see strong majority governments, and wonder if a new Ontario with PR will languish under a string of minority governments.
I'm more interested to see what happens if Ontario DOES chose the new system. Will it will start the push to adopt a PR system at the Federal level?
The problem in my mind is that while PR is "more democratic" people are already pretty apathetic about voting. Throwing a new and slightly more complicated voting system into the mix might actually reduce voter turnout. If people don't vote now, they're not apt to vote when they need to learn a whole new system.
What are the current polls? Does it seem like PR has a decent chance of passing?
I agree honey :)
I will vote PR all the way!
Allen and Andrew,
Thanks for the comments guys, I love it when debates get going on these forums.
As for your concerns: they are legitimate, I think. The MMP system will produce less resounding majorities than the FFP system. So if that bothers you, that's something to consider.
I don't see why we should assume, though, that this means Ontario will descend into an endless string of minority governments. After all, the current McGuinty government won some 70 seats of a 107-seat legislature. Throwing a few seats to the NDP and Green parties would hardly have kept the Liberals from reaching majority status. So I see little reason to fear that majority governments will go the way of the dodo.
Another thing: do we really want decisive majority governments if they can only achieve their majority status by fudging the numbers? If Canadians vote in patterns that produce minorities, shouldn't that preference be reflected in our legislature? If Canadians get fed up with minority governments, it's up to them to change their voting habits and bandwagon more often, thus producing majorities. In short, if the Canadian electorate asks for a minority, I think they should get one, if we value democracy.
And lastly: what's so great about majority government anyway? We have had two minority governments at the federal level, and there has been lots of meaningful legislation. The budgets have been balanced. Harper's minority has been very stable, and has in fact run out of agenda items for discussion! So it seems to me that lots can be achieved in minority governments. And if for some reason the Canadian electorate starts electing minority governments as the status quo, then our political parties will simply have to learn to cooperate effectively. This is done all over the world. Germany is an excellent example. This might even enable more political parties to enter the process, which might be good for the system as a whole.
So to sum up: I'm not too worried about minority governments being a product of this new system. I'm much more worried about the selection process for List Candidates, and whether that lends itself to terrible partisan abuse. As I mentioned in the post itself, I'll write a future post about the gross abuse of candidate nomination in this country.
Allen, good question about whether or not Ontario is pioneering the way for the federal government to adopt PR. It will depend on how successful the system proves to be, if adopted.
Keep the comments coming!! Glad you're enjoying the blog.
Thanks Margo! Happy voting:)
Hi all,
I plan on voting for the FFP system. There are just too many unknowns about the MMP and what I do know, I don't like.
1. Who looses the elected seats? If history is any indication, these seats would come from the less populated parts of Ontario. This would give even more power to the 905 area.
2. Do the party appointed people have the same power and privileges as the elected?
3. Why would anyone in their right mind run for election when they could sit on their duff and get appointed?
3. Under the FFP system we will never have a Communist member. Under MMP, we could.
4. These extra 39 members will all have to have offices, staff and their own public trough. Nice gig, if you can get it!
5. Cold the top posts (Finance, Health, Education etc) be filled with party faithful who have never received a single vote?
Just some Monday morning thoughts.
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